Ugly buses ….
Many of you will have seen our post about the replacement of the free bus link between Chester Station and the city with one where customers have to pay or use their English National Concessionary Bus Pass where they have one and it’s valid.
We were very sorry about this, as were many others, but sadly apparently the law prevents a council-subsided service operating alongside a commercially-registered service.
This was also covered in the Chester Chronicle of 10 November.
It seems that Councillor David Robinson is still rather sore about this, so are we, and has apparently been calling the buses big and ugly!
However, we don’t get our name up on the back of one of Aintree Coachways’ buses! ….
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Here’s the same bus seen yesterday.
A truce? ….
23 comments 
Category:
January 21st, 2012 at 7:01 pm
Funny how they can operate free car parks in competition with buses and trains, though.
January 22nd, 2012 at 11:01 am
Aintree Coachlines have really taken advantage of a loophole here. The law was to prevent councils paying unnecessary subsides for bus services but here the council will actually pay more to subsidise the pensioners using the service for free than they did for the First Bus service.
It’s not impossible for a bus war to occur on this route now, with multiple operators all trying to undercut each other’s fares, like has happened with Manchester’s route 192.
February 6th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
When we found out about the £1 charge and what it will now cost CW&C council, our family decided not to use this service again so we always walk into the city from the station.
After spending money trying to entice visitors to Chester, I wonder what they (the visitors) think when they have to pay another £2 rtn each when they do the decent thing and arrive by rail!
February 29th, 2012 at 7:55 am
It looks like we may have a “truce” in Chester. See the picture I took yesterday at the bottom of the post above ….
March 8th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
That’s not the same bus!
Trev – I wonder if you’d be jumping on the bus if the weather was wet or icy? Or would you still avoid the £1 charge to walk to the town centre? The service runs with plenty of passengers and they are happy to pay the charge, so you’re unlikely to dent the company profits.
I find it a crying shame that people are complaining as they are now having to pay a small charge to cover costs of a small family business running that employs over 15 drivers. There is a reason that there is a economic down turn in this country and it’s because people want everything for free!
Come to Chester enjoy the city, but pay for the rail and pay for the bus services!
March 8th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Tracey: If they are such a small family business, why do they trade under different names and have multiple depots? Helms of Eastham is run by the same people who run Aintree Coachlines. Niddries Coaches were a small family business, they had 5 coaches based in Middlewich when Ian Niddrie retired and sold the business to Bakerbus.
March 14th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
It’s worth noting that Plus Bus in Chester is £2 per day (or £1.35 for railcard holders) and covers all Arriva and First bus services in the Chester area. Some of these stop at the station.
It’s a shame GHA and Bowers haven’t signed up to Plus Bus as if they did it could be introduced from many stations in Cheshire.
March 27th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
GHA have registered a rival service to the Aintree Coachlines service which will run for 3 weeks on a trial basis from 2nd April to the 20th April excluding Sundays. No information on frequency or fares has been published yet.
Also as of 1st May First Bus will run a Chester Station to Chester Zoo via Chester City Centre service 7 days a week.
Looks like the roads between the station and the city centre could soon become like Oxford Road in Manchester.
As both the council and train operators have said their funding for the subsided service was still available but can’t be given for legal reasons, what are they spending that money on instead?
July 12th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Multiple depots? They have two. Aintree Coachline has a depot in Maghull and Helms has a depot near Eastham. It is only a small firm, which employs local people and uses local suppliers.
Has anyone noticed that the buses have been named after the ugly sisters?
Talking to the drivers on the rail link, they say there has been negative comments about having to pay, as you would expect, but lots of positive comments, particularly about the size of the buses used. The regular buses are bigger than those they replaced and on lots of occasions a modern low floor double decker appears.
It appears in all of this that there was no guarantee that the free service would continue in any case, given cuts made to bus services all over the place.
July 14th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Mark: Two depots is multiple depots. Trading under two names is quite common as it allows an operator to close down or sell off part of their operations and to keep the other (more profitable) part.
Cheshire West council were quite quick to point out that their share of the subsidy for the Chester Rail Link bus was a small amount in comparison to how much they have to fund towards pensioner passes on a commercial service, as it is now. The fact that every rail operator serving Chester station also paid towards the funding of the free bus made the council’s subsidy very low. I don’t recall hearing Arriva, Northern, Virgin or Merseyrail were to pull out of funding the free bus.
If it had been Aintree Coachlines running the free service and First Group had registered a commercial service then everyone would have been accusing First Group of being greedy and bullying the small operators.
July 16th, 2012 at 11:46 am
While multiple does of course mean more than one, it’s hardly like ACL are a huge player. The reason for the two depots and the two names is that Aintree Coachline was set up by John Cherry over 25 years ago, he subsequently bought Helms Coaches. It made sense to keep the two depots as neither depot would house the whole fleet as they are both only quite small.
You didn’t hear of the train companies withdrawing the funding as they can’t. It is in their respective franchise agreements.
As for the issue with the pass revenue, well ACL didn’t make up the rules, at the end of the day they are in business to make money, they have seen an opportunity to do that. I am surprised none of the other operators saw it first. Somebody made the point earlier that this has opened up the possibility of a bus war on the route. This is not new, that possibility has existed since October 1986.
In a way Arriva do compete as they run services from outside the station that also serve the City.
August 2nd, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Mark: Of course the TOCs withdrew their funding once the First Bus service went. The agreement was they would part fund a FREE city centre bus in Chester. Aintree Coachlines registered a commercial fare paying service, so that is not what the TOCs agreed to fund.
I imagine a lot of Chester visitors think that the bus is now £1 because the council ran out of money, not because Aintree Coachlines wanted to make money off Chester visitors. Only the local papers in Chestrer itself have reported that Aintree Coachlines are to blame not the council, so the wider public don’t know the story. If the wider public knew the truth they are less likely to use the fare paying service. Look at what happened when North Western buses tried to take over in Warrington – the public weren’t happy with them and Warrington Borough Transport survived.
August 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 am
I never suggested that the TOC’s would continue their funding when the free service finished. The point I was making is that they couldn’t withdraw funding for the free service as it was in their franchise agreement.
I would imagine that most people aren’t aware or interested in why the free service finished. People have a choice, if they don’t want to pay the £1 then they don’t have to. I think it is good value, if you board an Arriva bus in Liverpool, the minimum fare is £2.
As for Aintree Coachline (no “s” at the end of the firms name) wanting to make money out of Chester visitors, they aren’t the only business in Chester wanting to do that! Also every commercial bus service in the country exists because the bus company wants to make money out of the travelling public. As I have said before, I’m surprised that none of the other bus operators did something similiar. Given that Aintree’s service has been running for some time now, it must be working as if it wasn’t they would have withdrawn it. I see GHA’s service hasn’t appeared too.
Your point about Warrington is interesting, WBT were supported by the local residents, the situation in Chester is different, it it visitors not locals who use the rail link. Also the free service was operated by First, not a local company.
Also Warrington was an unusual case, for what happens when a big group has a go at a smaller operator, you should look at Lancaster or Darlington.
August 7th, 2012 at 10:20 am
There is of course no need to board an Arriva bus to get around Liverpool city centre. If you have a Hartford to Liverpool STNs ticket then you can use it to travel onwards to Liverpool Central (when it reopens), James Street or Moorfields for no extra cost. Then for people living in central Liverpool and not catching the train in to Liverpool there is Cumfybus service running around Liverpool city centre and Brunswick which costs £1 or 60p for One Card holders (a free loyalty card that is available.)
However, the £2 fare for Liverpool South Parkway to Liverpool Airport does need looking at if we want more people to use public transport. In some EU countries you can travel from an Airport 15 miles from the city centre to the city centre for around £2 so a shuttle service doing under 2 miles costing the same is poor value for money.
GHA did run a city centre shuttle in Chester for 3 weeks during the Easter period.
August 7th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
No need to board an Arriva bus in Liverpool City Centre? What do you do after 1930-2000 when the C routes stop running? Also, while extensive they are they don’t serve everywhere. Say you were making a journey from Lime St to the Philharmonic Hall, would you wait half an hour for a C1, or 5 seconds for an 80 or 86 to save a £1?
Incidentally, there is an add on fare to train tickets from Liverpool South Parkway to the Airport for £1.60.
As for GHA, I stand corrected on that, the info I had from a couple of enthusiast forums was that although they registered the service, is was de registered almost straight away. They operated a few journeys on one day only. Monday 2nd April.
August 7th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Mark – if I was making a journey to from Lime Street to the Philharmonic Hall I would just walk as it’s less than a mile. If I wanted the Echo Arena and didn’t want to walk from Lime Street I would catch the train onwards to James Street and save myself a bus fare.
I assumed GHA registered a Chester city centre bus for a 3 week trial but because they have to give more than 3 weeks notice to cancel a service (I think it was 56 days notice), they applied to cancel it before they started running it. The first day of the registered service was the first day of the university Easter holidays and the cancellation date was the last day of the university Easter holidays, so it seemed to be a bit of a coincidence if they didn’t intend for it to be a 3 week trial.
August 7th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
That’s all very well if you can walk a mile, up some steep-ish streets. Again, it’s a decent walk from James St to the Echo Arena, I would say that’s further up City Rd from Chester Station! You might be able to walk that easily, lots couldn’t.
As for GHA, further reserarch shows they cancelled the registration a week after they applied.
August 7th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Just to clarify, the point I was trying to make by comparing the £1 fare on the rail link in Chester to Arriva’s minimum £2 fare in Liverpool was to make the point that a £1 fare isn’t bad at all. (I accept that it might be if it was once free!) Not to get into a pointless debate on how you get around Liverpool. Despite Jen saying otherwise, people do use Arriva (and Stagecoach) buses to make short journeys in Liverpool City Centre. You only have to get on a bus heading for the city to see that.
August 8th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
I would have thought the people who would make the short journeys on Arriva buses in Liverpool are mainly the ones with either over 60 or disabled passes meaning they travel for free unless they travel in the morning peak or reduced fare in the morning peak.
August 8th, 2012 at 11:35 pm
Holders of ENC passes have to pay full fare before 09:30, those with passes issued in Merseyside can travel before 06:30 fro free if they like too!
Despite what you might think, I do see people paying cash fares for short journeys. When did you last make a bus journey in Liverpool?
As I said above, the reason I mentioned Arriva in Liverpool was to highlight that the fare payable for a short distance trip is double the rail link fare. I really don’t know why people get so worked up about such things. This topic has generated 20 posts in eight months, a lot less passengers than a single trip on the rail link bus!
October 30th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Jen, I am well aware of our family business structure. Yes we do own Aintree Coachline & Helms of Eastham. We are a family business, and we are happy to employ approx 15 local men. This is a great achievement and I am proud to be part of my families small business. Please tell me Jen how much do you exactly know about our companies ?
November 1st, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Tracey – I just noticed in an earlier post you blamed the economic downturn on people wanting things for free. How exactly does that relate to Aintree Coachline introducing a fare paying service to replace a free service operated by First Bus?
Cheshire West council have revealed they pay Aintree Coachline more than they paid to subside the free bus due to the high number of over 60 passes being used on the Aintree Coachline service. The rail operators don’t subside Aintree Coachline but haven’t reduced their fares as a result of no longer paying a subsidy.
The way I see it is the following people lost out:
* Cheshire West council tax payers
* First Bus
* All rail users under 60 travelling to and from Chester – over 3 million journeys are made to and from Chester per annum
There’s no real difference for Chester visitors over 60 and one company employing a handful of people gains.
Normally I’d be in favour of a small local company taking work but in this case the disadvantages vastly outweigh the advantages.
November 1st, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Hi, folks!
I think we’ve had enough discussion on this subject now for any reader to be clear about people’s various views, so I’ll leave this up so people can see it, but no more comments please.
Thanks.